Let's Talk Squash - SUSPENDED

Marro · Prolific Contributor Joined: 04 Jul 2007 Posts: 77

Just wondering if anyone knows what changed with Lee Beachill? A couple of years ago he reached number one and was tipped to dominate for years to come. However, he's since slipped back out of the top ten and doesn't seem to be one of those expected to win the big tournaments any more.

Was it that the others learnt to cope with his style?

Did fatherhood change his level of commitment to being at his best?

Any other possibilities?

I for one would like to see him at the top again - wonder if it could happen...?

fionnmacual · Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:50 pm Post subject:

He was part of the Willstrop squash 'n rock ensemble that came up here 9 months ago, did some drills/conditioned games with locals,
doubles against the Scottish doubles champs with Ricketts and an exhibition game against Anthony.
If squash ranking was based on consistently skimming the sidewall and dominating the T, he'd still be no. 1. Phenom racket skills.

I think against the athletic guys, he lacks that extra deception that the top 5 have. He gave Ricketts a torrid time but Anthony with less finesse but lots of athleticism got back into a lot more rallies than he would have against a magician like Shab or Gaultier.

That's my 2 cents take on it.

squashinthecity · Contributor Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 19

I would actually say he is one of the most deceptive players on the circuit. he holds the ball better than anyone at the moment. Is just one of those things, just a small blip, am sure he will be back in the top 5 soonish. I dont think you can underestimate how tight the top 12 is. anyone of them can beat each other on the day....5 of the top 13 have been number one in the past, thats pretty impressive.

drop.shot · Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:36 am Post subject:

I do echo Fionmmacual voice. He is still superb player, though modern squash players (Amr, Greg, Ramy) are far better, so Lee & co. (Willstrop, Mathew, White) do belong to the 2nd five of the top 10 ranking.

Local-wise, I do still believe he is a real threat and can't just be ignored. And anyway, it's a pleasure for my eyes to watch him playing.
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Calsquasher · Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject:

One word: Motivation. He's lost his will to travel, train, compete. I hardly think the game has changed that much since 2004 when he was at the top.
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drop.shot · Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:47 pm Post subject:

HACKER · Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:46 pm Post subject:

Total nonsense. The game was exactly the same in 2004! Power, Nicol, Palmer, Lincou etc etc. And you're trying to compare Anjema, Bennett etc to these??!!

Beachill has just got older, a family and can't train like he used to and doesn't recover as quickly from hard matches or training and gets stiffer after a match so struggles the next day

bendi36 · Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:28 pm Post subject:

[quote="drop.shot"]

Haasquet · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject:

Speaking of Power, how sweet would it be to see him play against Ramy?

drop.shot · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject:

mark · Prolific Contributor Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 66

Whats your `rational` argument drop.shot? That an on-form Power, Lincou, Nicol, or Palmer from a few years back couldn`t beat one of the on-form stars today?
That`s nonsense. Lincou was #1 for a year and looked unbeatable. Then he fell off it. It`s not that the field caught up, but more Lincou had a golden period where his motivation, confidence, training, form, etc was at a peak. So when he started losing that doesn`t mean the overall level of squash `drastically` changed.
The form that took Jon Power back to #1 wasn`t due to any `new crazy shots` or more vollying than he had done in the past, it was a great metal push to stay on top form long enough to get to the top. All thoughout Jons career we saw what he was capable of. Look at the 1998 world open and compare that Power to the 2006 #1 Power. You might argue different, you may not. But I doubt anyone would argue drastically different.

Also to say that Palmer can`t beat Ashour anymore is also nonsense. How many times have they played?

Power beat Nicol six consecutive times from 1996-1998. Read that and think, `wow, two years and six games in a row, Nicol can`t beat Power`

Then Nicol beat Power five times in a row from 2003-2004. If you have the attention span of a gnat you may have thought at that time `wow, Power can`t beat Nicol anymore`

Drop.shot, you say the game now is attack, attack, attack, fast, precise, volly everything? Go spend some money on PSALIVE.tv and check out the best games of 2004. You might alot of just that.

drop.shot · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:32 pm Post subject:

Mark, I see clearly now you are another very smart guy here. Welcome to the forum.

Just to let you know, I spent a lot of money not only on PSALIVE, but on Squashlive DVDs and I see the developement of the game. If YOU can't see the difference, doom on you.

I am sorry that the only way of discussion here is saying "NONSENSE" and proving how smart the poster is or want to be.
_________________
>>drops hot<<
the nastiest shot

HACKER · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:30 pm Post subject:

The reason we say it is 'NONSENSE' is because that is exactly what you are talking!

If you seriously think the game has moved on so much since 2004 you are very much deluded and clearly have no idea what you are talking about. If you took the top 10 from 3 years ago,

a) some of the players are still in the top 10 now.

b) Power - similar in most ways to Ramy.

c) Nicol - much more successful than Shabana

There is no difference.

Canuck · Prolific Contributor Joined: 28 Aug 2007 Posts: 123

August 2004

1 Peter Nicol ENG 7516.25 11 835.139 Details
2 Lee Beachill ENG 5796.25 11 644.028 Details
3 Thierry Lincou FRA 5032.50 10 629.063 Details
4 David Palmer AUS 5252.50 11 583.611 Details
5 John White SCO 4642.50 11 515.833 Details
6 Jonathon Power CAN 4621.25 13 462.125 Details
7 Amr Shabana EGY 4538.75 13 453.875 Details
8 Nick Matthew ENG 3500.00 12 388.889 Details
9 Karim Darwish EGY 3492.50 11 388.056 Details
10 Gregory Gaultier FRA 2820.00 10 352.500 Details
11 Joseph Kneipp AUS 2665.00 11 296.111 Details
12 Anthony Ricketts AUS 2356.25 8 294.531 Details
13 James Willstrop ENG 2430.00 11 270.000 Details
14 Omar Elborolossy EGY 2178.75 11 242.083 Details
15 Mohammed Abbas EGY 1977.50 11 219.722 Details
16 Adrian Grant ENG 2080.00 14 208.000 Details
17 Graham Ryding CAN 1870.00 12 207.778 Details
18 Renan Lavigne FRA 1646.25 10 205.781 Details
19 Mark Chaloner ENG 1732.50 12 192.500 Details
20 Mansoor Zaman PAK 1502.50 9 187.813 Details

August 2007

1 Amr Shabana EGY 11168.75 12 1116.875 Details
2 Ramy Ashour EGY 10737.50 13 1073.750 Details
3 David Palmer AUS 9618.75 12 961.875 Details
4 Gregory Gaultier FRA 8268.75 13 826.875 Details
5 Thierry Lincou FRA 5962.50 12 596.250 Details
6 Anthony Ricketts AUS 5775.00 15 525.000 Details
7 James Willstrop ENG 4850.00 13 485.000 Details
8 Nick Matthew ENG 4798.75 13 479.875 Details
9 John White SCO 5493.75 17 457.813 Details
10 Wael El Hindi EGY 5318.75 16 443.229 Details
11 Stewart Boswell AUS 1 é 4526.25 15 411.477 Details
12 Karim Darwish EGY 1 ê 4402.50 14 400.227 Details
13 Lee Beachill ENG 4273.75 15 388.523 Details
14 Mohammed Abbas EGY 3891.25 15 353.750 Details
15 Peter Barker ENG 1 é 3168.75 13 316.875 Details
16 Adrian Grant ENG 1 ê 3322.50 15 302.045 Details
17 Mohd Azlan Iskandar MAS 2 é 3438.75 16 286.563 Details
18 Olli Tuominen FIN 1 ê 2842.50 13 284.250 Details
19 Ong Beng Hee MAS 1 ê 2937.50 14 267.045 Details
20 Alex Gough WAL 1 é 2455.00 15 223.182 Details

Since August 2004, Nicol, Power, Kneipp, Ryding, and Chaloner - 25% of the top 20, and 20% of the top 10, have retired. Beachill and Darwish have slipped out, but the other 6 are still in the top 10 today. That's 60% retention, or 75% (six of eight) retention once you factor in the retirements of Power and Nicol. Of those active players, only 3 people in the top 20 in August 2004 (El Borolossy, Lavigne, and Mansoor Zaman) have slipped out of the top 20 - so even more traction there. Face it drop.shot, the game hasn't changed that much in 3 short years - in fact one of the people that crept back into the top 20 since August 2004 is the 36-year old Alex Gough, not to mention Boswell, and Beng Hee, both older players that have made it back into the top 20 from the wilderness of 20+. Frankly, I'm surprised there hasn't been more change at the margins.

As an aside, how do you bring Dylan Bennett into the picture, when you haven't mentioned Peter Barker, Borja Golan, Alister Walker, or Daryl Selby as young Europeans. Not knocking Dylan (he's knocking on top 40 at 23), but those other players are of similar age, and higher ranked. Futhermore, what about Chris Gordon, the American that is almost two years his junior, and who disposed of Bennett in 3 straight games (albeit a while back).

You're making some big assertions, which is why you're being called on them. And I don't claim to know everything about squash, but the facts are on record for us to see.

bendi36 · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:36 pm Post subject:

i liked marks view and disliked drop shots.
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GOB · Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:19 am Post subject:

whitty · Heavy Contributor Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 42

i believe he has had a really bad time over the last few years with injury. infact he is carrying an injury right now, hence his limited involvement in the world teams. thats not to say peter barket didnt warrant his place.
plus with him getting older its harder to come back from an injury than it used to be. from what i have been told he is taking a rest to recover from his latest niggle. hopefully he will get back to full fitnees, because when he is in full flow he holds the ball better than anybody else in the world which for somebody that takes an intersest in the tactical side of the game is brilliant

bendi36 · Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:48 am Post subject:

From the outside it looks like he lost some interest, same for John White. Both players had a year of being around 2 or 3, got to no 1 for a month and slowly lost it.
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nmc8 · Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:15 am Post subject:

I have to say I agree with Bendi that a number of guys reach their goals and then fall of as the others fight even harder to retain their positions. Some times actually achieving your dreams leaves you with out the motivation to carry on especially as it is harder at the top of the tree.

NMC8

bny768 · Prolific Contributor Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 90

I've been noticing drop.shot's posts elicit alot of argument, such as those in the equipment section. Nothing wrong with feeling strongly about one side of the argument I guess.

bendi36 · Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:57 am Post subject:

Here! Here! Let's get rid of plop shot.
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manus · Prolific Contributor Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 202

Me thinks drop shot takes this all too serious...... every post on this topic has valid points of opinion, but i have to agree with the majority here, the game hasnt changed much in the last few years. I saw beachill play a few times and his holds and technique in racket swing and movement are brilliant to watch. my impression is that just before he got to no 1 he played such perfect tight squash that no one could counteract his game. eventually lincou, palmer and the rest figured out his game and began to beat him. he seemed to lose interest after been beaten a few times. I watched him on sky a few years back playing nick matthew in the semis and he destroyed nick with perfection squash. it took matthew and willstrop a long time to figure out how to beat beachill. great player though, and great for beginners to watch if only just to see an example of perfect technique and squash playing ability

Khalid · Contributor Joined: 27 Aug 2007 Posts: 17 Location: Kuwait

Well Done..all members and participants in this thread..I honestly think that this is probably one of the best threads and opions in the forum...Well done everyone! I can't really say that there has been a change in the game since 2004...that is much too short of a period to demonstrate a trend and an overall "change in the game". It can be said that players with specific traits somewhat have better results than others...but the closeness of skills and strategies in todays top players can only make a true squash fan happy. I still enjoy watching pre-2000 games, and the few 80's games I have are extremely enjoyable to watch even though their presentations (media-wise) are bad...I do not really have an opinion, just wanted to say that squash to me is enjoyable at all levels, and I can appreciate even little kids (7 years old and above at our club) scurrying across the court. So thanks everyone for the stats and info and opinions presented...with such dediacated opinions makers...squash will go places (namely the Olympics)
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Adrian19 · Prolific Contributor Joined: 13 Mar 2008 Posts: 230

Yeah... maybe the style has changed slightly a little bit. Maybe. Its still basically the same. Squash isn't going to change much... guys are just going to play each other little different. Beachill's skills are still crazy good... they will still match up against Ramy and company... the best guy's matches are still going to come down to pure effort and will... and that is how it should be... and that is why squash rules!!!!!!
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